2.18 — “Death Wish”

Comments

7 responses to “2.18 — “Death Wish””

1. 

   Randi Cohen

   October 22, 2018

   Ummm, yeah. Everything you said.

   Also, this is silly. If Q is offering to bring the whole ship back with crew aboard in exchange for dooming one Q to immortality without any harm coming to him, then what the heck, Janeway! Accept and stop looking a gift Q in the mouth! How many crewmen have died and likely will die as a result of this decision? Why are their lives so unimportant as to not even be considered?

   It also continues to be annoying that Q is male and a sexual harrasser. Talk about boring and “been there done that”. He needs to move on to something more interesting than sexually demeaning women.

   Also, although it’s in rather poor taste to build an episode around it, I think if Q is actually going to come through on his offer then perhaps it behooves Janeway to go along with the flirtation, similar to Spock in that episode with the female Romulan commander. Even in the original Trek, the characters were not so pure as to reject using their sexuality to achieve results for the crew and the ship’s mission, and this is part of what made the show interesting. I actually think a Janeway willing to use her personal charisma to inveigle others into taking actions that are favorable to her side, while admittedly playing into some sexist tropes, does ultimately make her a stronger character.

   Also, it’s lame that there is zero infirmation about the negative impact that the suicide could have on the Continuum.

   In conclusion, what moral point is Janeway’s decision meant to illustrate? I am not even sure. That immortality might be so boring that one might as well die? What about all the zillions of good deeds remaining to be done in the Universe? How profoundly selfish to want to die in presence of a clearly chaotic and painful system hurting uncountable beings instead of working to make it better, even if that work lasts for eternity.

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2. 

   Kevin Black

   October 22, 2018

   Kirk’s move would totally be to seduce Q to try to rescue his crew, that is so right! Voyager has lost its way that something like this isn’t even considered.

   I don’t know if Q (either one) has a moral duty to help the universe; certainly de Lancie’s actions in the past suggest he’s as likely to play the trickster. Frankly I’m uncomfortable with Janeway’s completely unexamined baseline assumption that suicide is wrong and that political authorities should have a role in banning it. There are a lot of issues here worth talking about, and they didn’t get into any of them, besides a fatuous discussion of whether new Q is really suffering (from ennui? This seems to be a botched reference to Death with Dignity laws which look at chronic pain and incurable illnesses as factors allowing the government to lift its ban on actively facilitating another’s death).

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3. 

   Randi Cohen

   October 22, 2018

   That’s interesting that you don’t see the Q’s as having a moral duty to help the universe. I’m curious why not. I guess if you think we are like bugs to them, then maybe not, but clearly we are much more interesting and “on a level” with them than bugs, given their fascination with us.

   Yes, it’s a very botched reference indeed… I don’t think lack of sufficient stimulation is something that we can necessarily conceive of as limited humans… another reason why it’s ridiculous for Janeway to make this call.

   In my human mind, the problem of too much power, and time, is one that I personally would be happy to have, and this episode has certainly not convinced me otherwise. 🙂

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4. 

   Kevin Black

   October 22, 2018

   Yes, the visit to the Continuum is another underwhelming element. It’s interesting to think about what right and wrong looks like to a being who lives millions or billions of years and sees the universe on a cosmic scale.

   I guess when it comes to questions of positive duty, from where? comes to mind. I think a utilitarian argument applies for humans (do unto others), but not necessarily Q.

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5. 

   Randi Cohen

   October 22, 2018

   Yep. Reminds me of the original encounter that sent them to the Delta Quadrant. Why would they portray scientifically superior beings as living solo on a prairie?

   Interesting about the utilitarian argument. I favor beneficence (try to do good) — as an axiom more than as a derived element. I also think that that do unto others is not necessarily meant to be a utilitarian argument as much as an empathic one, or at the very least it’s meant to be both.

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6. 

   Kevin Black

   October 22, 2018

   Gosh this is an interesting discussion! Sparked by such a poor episode! They really missed the boat.

   Doesn’t an axiom imply a deity of some kind? I’m oriented towards deriving axioms from principles that don’t require proving unprovable things. If everyone abides by “do unto others,” then everyone is better off, so if it’s also a commandment of some kind, bonus. Empathy is a good way to look at it also (I really like that!), emphasizing in part how understanding people and helping them not only helps them but also gives you a feeling of wholeness, happiness and well-being. If you say that it’s a positive good in some kind of absolute sense you have to take on board some kind of belief in abstract good and evil, which must come from faith?

   I do believe in good and evil, but I also consider myself to be spiritual. It may be that an extremely advanced public philosophy is indistinguishable from spirituality in the same way that an extremely advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

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7. 

   Randi Cohen

   October 23, 2018

   Yes, they sure did!

   An axiom is a mathematical term meaning a basis from which further principles are derived or a structure is created.

   In other words, I don’t require myself to prove that doing good for other creatures is a desirable thing. I just think it’s obviously true, whether I believe in a deity or not.

   Starting at birth, human children are “wired” for empathic connection and to help those around them. I think there is a moral system inherent in our biology, probably because species that collaborate better survive better, but maybe also because life is inherently precious and intelligent life forms are in a good position to appreciate this, even if competitive elements also surface at times.

   Life is a source of warmth in an otherwise very cold universe.

   Perhaps the Q, in not seeing themselves as part of an intricate web of other beings, have engineered their own internal destruction as the cold sets in.

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